Snyder lied to the electorate.He wanted to end divisiveness but only created more.He is not to be trusted.Once a liar always a liar.

8 of the 10 poorest states are wtr

Right on Steve. I signed the petition the first time to recall this guy and will gladly do it again. when are the people in this country going to wake up and realize, republicans are for the rich, not the working class. They should have realized it when Snyder funded his own campaign. I did, but noooo, they wanted Granholm out so they voted for anyone, not educating themselves on his platform. Granholm couldn't run again, but I guess they didn't know that either.

@ Amazin Oz. Before you look more foolish, do some research.
Those 8 states you claim are the poorest, were POOR before RTW was enacted.
Show me their economic prowess before RTW was signed, then show me how they've declined after RTW was signed.
You can't. Because it didn't happen. It NEVER has. But keep drinking that union kool aid, it never dries up.

Linda,
So...you hold the fact that Synder funded his own campaign against him? Really?
Brilliant!!
Nevermind the fact that Michigan as a whole (can't count on Detroit for anything) has seen financial gains across the board AND balanced it's budget under his watch.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your ignorance.

Synder isn't going anywhere. What are you going to cry about next when the 2nd go around fails and fails miserably?

Enough with the 'choices' argument! I can tell you what choices has led to in this country.......contaminated toys, outsourced jobs, lower wages and unsafe water and food, just to name a few! Tell me,.......where can you find a 'Thomas the Train' toy that is not made in China and contaminated with lead paint?

For now, I 'choose' not to shop at Walmart but I ask, how long will it be before Walmart clones are the ONLY choices out there? Choices based on cost alone lead to some rather dire consequences which we may be able to temporarily overlook ( rather you are able to sell) in favor of short term gains but become irreversible once acknowledged.

Example; Is it even posssible to find 'organic' food anymore? You know, the kind we ate as children but that now has to be inspected, FDA approved, labelled, and consequently overpriced and out of reach for much of the population. The answer is simply........NO! Thanks to Monsanto's GMO corn and soy planted within a hundred mile radius of Rochester in our neighboring state of Indiana ( think Central Soya), all food can enjoy the same pesticide contaminates due to the airborn residue of the accompanying high octane pesticides and herbicides used on these crops.

So, yes, short term gains can lead to long term consequences! And you know as well as I do, that once accomplished, there is no turning back! So, lets THINK about what we are signing and legislating!......for our CHILDREN'S sake!

Cheryl..... Huh? What does anything written in your argument have to do with "Right to work"?
Right to work is good for the entire state and approved by the majority or voters as shown by the overwhelming disapproval of Prop 2. The unions played their hand and the voters spoke up.... what Snyder and the state legislature did is make the entire state of Michigan winners at the cost of a few uninformed, selfish whiners.

you must not be retired.....just wait and see how you like your pension check taxed

You have always had the right to choose. That doesn't need to be legislated.

Cheryl...you are SO wrong. You apparently have never had many experiences with unions. I have---decades of experience. It is the unions that have made un- reasonable demand on domestic companies that have made those same companies seek cheaper labor rates....usually outside the USA or in states that have RTW. . And it is the union that endorses lower productivity to demand more headcount to take up the slack. That, my dear. is not productive. I have seen in my experince at FoMoCo having full measures of skilled trades on a weekend job that have put in less thah 3.5 hours of work in an 8 hour day. Yes, it seemed that company management didn't care, but at the same time they keep outsourcing work overseas or out of state to obtain more productivity. I see abosolutely NOTHING in your argument against RTW...your rant about organic food, contamintaed toys, Monsantos corn...wow---has nothing at all to do with RTW. Find another blog to spout off about that crap....please!

Oz, stop whining. Yes, my pension took a hit. Why shouldn't my pension be taxed like everyone else's? The fact that I had an exempt pension was unfair.

Kelly...GREAT post. Thank you!

My brother, sent his children to a private school because, he didn't want his children associating with the kids in the public schools, not the teachers.

TO DJG Obamacare is that like, the Bush 's W.M.D campaigne, a lot of money no results!!

as well they should.....

@vincent.
Yes, Republicans are the only politicians that only want you to see what they want to see.

How's that Obamacare working out for you? I mean, Obama said it wasn't a tax...didn't he?
Exactly.

Check it out. http://www.forbes.com/best-states-for-business/list/

Actually the Business tax climate index for Michigan went from 49 best to 7th best, which will draw many new companies to Michigan as the taxes are much more favorable. That means many more jobs, especially now that RTW is a reality. If a company and/or workers wants to have a union, they still can. If a worker thinks he can negotiate a better deal with the boss than the union, well , now he has that choice and option. In the past, the hard workers had to carry the 'deadwood', everyone got a raise whether they deserved it our not. Say hello to merit pay and incentives. If you work hard and make the company money, you get more pay and are rewarded. If the company ignores you etc, then either you need to brush up on your negotiating skills or it's time to move on to a company that appreciates you. We see examples of this everywhere. The bosses that don't reward employees for hard work and don't fire the lazy ones will eventually go out of business, a business is only as good as the people that work for it.
Bottom line, Snyder won't be recalled, in fact, he will be re-elected and history will note him as one of our best governors, looking out the the state folk, his customers.

Lee,
I beg to differ......they do not go out of business! They hire for less, someone younger, cheaper and harder working....and use them until they burn out or become too expensive! This is a MUCH more common occurance and happens to MANY middle management, hard working middle managers!

I have worked in the union when i was in my 20's for the UAW. I can say that the union only represented the 5% trouble makers. 95% of the people dont need a union because they are good hard working people, and quite frankly the 5% should have been fired, but because of the union they got to stay. This is not good for morale.

When someone in the 95% needed help, representation was poor at best because the reps didnt even know the rules, how to negotiate and didnt know how to do the research in order to help the employee

I have also worked on the Management side after this and dealt with auto suppliers. I can say that on all my audits, companies with out unions were much nicer to work with .. which is why there was not union at this supplier. When I would survey a supplier with a union, management was not good, so Unions do have their place for bad employers. Unions are not always necessary.

IT is time for RTW, we need to get jobs in Michigan NOW. Maybe in 20 yrs or so, it will be time to change it back. I can say that when your rep doesnt help you , it would be nice to be able to go and stop paying your dues... why pay for representation if it doesn't help you.

This is to, total health
Although I agree with some of what you say.If you take the 95/5 percent process and apply it to our justice system, it actually is disproportionate in reverse 95 percent of your tax dollars are spent protecting criminal and 5% is spent protecting the law biding citizens like yourselves. Does that mean we should get rid of the justice system so the criminals don't protected.. In every system whether in politics or not, you have good and bad,If the people that actually worked in a union shop and don't want the union they can vote it out and if they like the union they can vote it in. It's not my right to say that for them in Lansing Michigan or any place else. In union there is a process to change how they, as (Reps) can deal with the 5% and they do. In the shop to the percentage of bad to good is 1% to 99%. We can't say that about any system of government in the country period. This is a great conversation and I appreciate you reading this comment.

To Vincent:
I totally agree that its not up to lansing to say whether an individual must join a union. Now we actually have a choice to vote with our check book. If the Union does not do their job and represent each and every union person, now they have a remedy... stop paying dues... Its simple. I wish that I had that option many years ago...

The process to change unions (and government) is broken, and now Union folks have an additional way to change the Unions. The rank now have the ability to make an individual decision can now vote with their check books - If enough people are dissatisfied and decide that the union does not represent THEM, the Union will go out of business.

People will say that causing the Unions to fail is the reason behind the change in Legislation, but I say that it is a wake up call for the Unions to rise to the occasion and offer superior services to the rank and file that they have been paying for many many years.

To, Total H
If withholding payment were a way to bring about change, why don't we create legislation that allow people to stop paying taxes as a form of protest? Forcing change on a origination from the outside wrong. Just like it would be wrong to beat and pepper spry protester, just because they speak up, when they feel misrepresented. RTW is the club thats is in the hands of republicans says we don't need your voice or votes we will do what we won't, get used to it. There was no vote on RTW in Michigan. Only in Lansing. The people in michigan were not HEARD!

to Total-H,
I must state, your are totally miss informed about voting with your checkbook, When you join a union shop you are interviewed and told you have applied for a job at a union shop. The Company had agreed to let it's employees be represented by the union of( their choice)( through the election process) that is a legal process guaranteed through our Constitution, if you would like to do this type of work you will(need) to join the union. If don't want to join the union we will not hire you. Note it is the Company that states We as a (Company) won't be able hire you. The Company could have continued, and said if we the (company) had treated the(majority) of the employees more equitably the union would not be here. The opportunity to vote is with the application not after you choose to accept the job. Just don't apply. Please don't miss understand what i'm trying to say. I am neither for or against unions. When I hear people make statements like you can vote with your check book, I'm hearing our Representatives both here in Michigan and Washington say the same thing, vote with your check book and you will be heard. what about people who, would like to be heard, with out using their money, does this mean they don't have a voice. I would prefer to vote my choice and in this instant with RTW, the Governor denied me that right. proposal 2 has nothing to RTW legislation.

Vincent, you say RTW and Proposal 2 have nothing to do with each other? Are you kidding? According to a website defining Proposal Two, Prop 2 would apply mostly to government unions, since most private-sector unions are governed by federal law.

The only effect Prop 2 would have on the private-sector unions governed by federal law is that the amendment would make passing a right-to-work law impossible for both private and government unions without another constitutional amendment. A right-to-work law allows workers to keep their jobs even if they choose not to contribute money to a union. Again, a right-to-work law would be legislatively impossible if Prop 2 passed. Unionized Michigan workers could not keep their jobs if they refused to make union contributions. End result? Proposal 2 was a "hail Mary' attempt by the unions to stop RTW forever, and Gov Snyder saw the forest through the trees and brought out his chainsaw to make a statement, backed by the voters of Michigan, that the best interests of Michigan could be served if we had choice, and the Right to Work legislation was the result. We are still low on many lists, but Michigan has turned the corner, folk are coming back, and jobs will be here for them as companies flock to take advantage of our skilled workforce. The unions will still be here, ready to join just in case those new jobs are not paying enough, time will tell, but history shows a positive result of RTW.

Lee I have one ready
Q1, If I had (voted) on propel 2 would( RTW) have become legislation and placed in to law yes or no

Oh that's right the republicans did not place RTW on a ballet proposal and let the citizens of Michigan vote on it did they. They knew it would also get voted down!
Sorry the question was I have one really good question in the previous comment, batteries running low on key board sorry!!

Vincent, it seems pretty obvious that voters statewide did express their opinion on RTW via the defeat of Prop 2 which, if passed, would have outlawed RTW in Michigan. All Gov Snyder did was reaffirm that opinion of the people supporting RTW by signing a bill passed by the elected State legislature who happen to be elected by the State of Michigan, legislators that you may, or may not have voted for. Don't worry, if the union is as good as you say it is, it will thrive, right? The only difference is that workers have more say in the matter. In other words, a choice.

Lee,
You are wrong. We voted on Prop 2 which was NOT a RTW bill. We, the voters never had a chance to vote on RTW, they did it in the middle of the night, under a lame duck legislature and added a amendment that it could not be turned over by referendum. That is NOT a vote of the people.They Never wanted us to vote on it and they made sure we never could.
The constituents that Snyder listened to were Dick DeVos, The Mackinaw Center, that have had RTW on the agenda for many years.Having a Rep vote for it is not the same thing, if we were good enough to toss Prop 2, why did they tag on the amendment?
We shall see how this works out, but saying that it's how WE voted is so far from the truth that either you're mistaken or lying. Which is it?

Lianne, Prop 2, if passed, would have enshrined the unions forever into our state constitution, making it against the law to have RTW. Voters state wide thought that was wrong, and voted accordingly. In other words, State wide voters thought it was wrong to not allow RTW, so the next logical step was to allow it. The unions can still do what unions do, they just lost their monopoly, now they actually have to talk to their members and explain why it is important to continue to pay dues. If members don't buy their spiel, the union bosses either fix the reasons why or membership will drop. Michigan voters voted for their legislators. They passed the RTW law. Therefore, indirectly, voters did choose RTW.
Is RTW part of our state constitution? No. Can RTW be changed down the road? What for? All the law does is give more freedom to workers to make up their own mind on the issue of whether to pay union dues for services rendered, or not if they feel they are getting shortchanged. The union lost their monopoly, don't like it, and don't like the loss of automatic payments to the union coffers. If I were a union boss, I would be upset too as the gravy train has finally ended. Unions need to reinvent themselves. I'm surprised the UAW isn't organizing the shops in China.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2008/0929/p01s02-woap.html

The workers in China need better pay, safer conditions, go for it UAW.

Lee,
Prop 2 passed but it's not the same thing. You never addressed the points I made.
Electing a Rep to do the peoples business and I don't mean in the midnight hours is less then honorable. Further, you never addressed the amendment that would let it go before the vote of the people, they blocked that. Again, less then honorable.
While I have never been a union member or support a union. Letting the Koch Brothers and the Mackinaw Center make decisions for me is offensive. I prefer to decide for myself on these matters.
I sugest you run for public office since your spin is so well refined.
I resent when Lansing ,with all their well paid reps working part time at full time wages and benefits, see fit to let the tax payers make the real important decisions.

I agree!

I know I voted for Obamacare...didn't you?

Prop 2 was soundly defeated. If RTW was on the ballot, it would've passed..just as easily.

Well letting me decided whether my union dues will support a certain party or candidate that i dont support is a choice that I should have and now i do. IS something like Obamacare a choice or on the fixed menu you speak of?

Let's talk specifically about Union Dues. You are correct, your dues should not go to endorse a candidate if you choose not to donate to that candidate, that is why organizations have PAC's. (you are free to support or not support) In addition, every collectively bargained contract out there has a "opt out or fee payer option." Now let's discuss YOUR not paying Union Dues. Should you have the same protections that a dues paying memeber (wages, hours, working conditions) gets for paying their dues and working under a contract that is collectively bargained for? Let's be completely fair, YOU don't pay Union dues, YOU bargain your own contract. YOU don't receive ANY of the benefits of MY contract if it was bargained for by MY Union. Willing to roll those dice?????

The Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare) is a federal issue, how our state chooses to react to it (or not as the case is) is an entirely different topic.

Steve i understand obamacare is federal it was just an example of OUR choices that you brought up, sorry if you didnt get that. Im sure i know where you stand there. Now as far as supporting PAC's, i am also aware of that option however paying out more money on top of union dues doesnt make sense. Not every bargained contract has the clause you speak of either, trust me i have asked. Lets me honest here I do pay union dues. I have been both union and non union and i havenst seen much of a difference, except i get a fair shot a promotions in non union instead of the seniority process, which is a crock. I will roll the dice andy day based on my personal experience on both sides. Now your experience may be different and you are entitled to your opinion. I have fought to protect mine and have not problem saying it. I dont think unions are evil but they are not for everyone or ever industry. Although on a side not the demonstration in lansing when this bill was signed was very disgraceful. Have a great New Year.

I agree with Steve!

joseph.....union dues can not be used to support a party or candidate by law....thats what V cap's are for

Joe, I got your point. You are mistaken. EVERY bargained contract has an opt out/fee payer option, it's the law. You need to check into it more carefully. If you wish to maintain that your employer will continue to raise your salary and increase your benefits when they could pay someone else less to do the same job, then that is your choice. If you have an employer like that, hold on to your job as long as you can. I hope the best for you. Unfortunately, in the real world there is always someone who is smarter, younger and cheaper who will do your job better, quicker and less expensive. When your employer realizes this, you may be in for a rude awakening. Of course if and when that does happen, I'm sure that there will always be "Obamacare" for you to fall back on and blame. I will also agree with you in the thought that "Unions aren't for everyone." However, I will disagree with you that your current level of pay and benefits have not and will not be directly affected by collective bargaining. Unions and the middle class go hand-in-hand, remove one and you destroy the other. If we were to judge the merits of one, upon the actions of another, (your bill signing Lansing issue) then we must also believe that all Republicans are self absorbed, racist, women hating homo-fobes? I would like to think that I'm more evolved/enlightened than that. Where do you feel that you fall on the spectrum Joe?

Amazin Oz, you saw it's illegal but it happens. The Service Employees International Union{SEIU} is a huge supporter of Obama. Why do you think Obama is so against RTW. Oh that's right, it's because he cares about whether people are being treated fairly in the workplace, and not at all about the fact that with RTW he is going to lose millions in support. Again, you may say it's illegal but I've seen the proof it;'s a fact SEIU major Obama supporter.

Steve, Home Help Providers do not have that option. HHP are forced to be members of the SEIU, union dues are taken from their minimum wage paying checks every month, they do not receive any benefits, they do not a representative, they are not given the choice to vote or opted out of anything that involves the union dues. It's government corruption at it's finest. Democrat Governor Jen Granholm gives authority to a committee to take a portion of the state funded checks issued to people who care for the elderly and disabled, the gimmick, label it as 'union dues' and claim they are now in a union. In turn, that union, SEIU, takes those millions collected in 'union dues' and gives to the Democrat Politician Obama. Democrat Politician passes legislation that benefits the SEIU, oooopps, We now have a Republican Governor who doesn't play that game. So now they must do all they can to stop this fair politician. And there we have all the fear of what 'might' happen with RTW... spread the fear... that's what gets people moving and acting like total baffoons absent of any logic.

Christine, I need to look into that issue. (the SEIU) Worst case senerio those workers should be allowed to be "fee payers." Union dues should not be used for political candidates, that's why unions have PAC's. Once again, I need to research that specific group. I don't know enough about them to be able to speak to it yet.

as opposed to the PRIOR status quo, which was NO CHOICES AT ALL .........

Kurt, why, with RTW, do businesses not have to pay their new employees as much? Wages and compensation is an agreement between the employer and employee. If an employee works hard, and wants to negotiate their own raise, what's wrong with that? If an employee is shy, and wants the union to do the talking, they can do that as well. In fact, what is preventing the union from changing their own rules about dues and who they represent? Right now, it is the union that claims they represent everyone, so they are offering to do it for free even if one does not join the union. The union is making that choice, and then has the audacity to complain about it. Mafia and unions, we saw some of that in Lansing, Hot dogs anyone? Fair and taxes? How is it fair that 5% of the folk pay 87% of the taxes? All of us should be paying taxes , yet 47% don't pay any federal tax.

Workers have the freedom to work wherever they want, and , if they don't like the pay, they have the freedom to find another job that pays better. Employers have equal rights as well, if the employee does not fit the job, they can say adios.

What about the police and firemen that are allow to be in unions pay their union dues with our tax dollars and have state constitutional protection.

Lee - your post is full of lies. You're entitled to your own opinions. Not your own facts.

"47% don't pay federal tax." False. Anyone that works pays social security and medicare tax on their income. That's a federal tax.

"5% of folk pay 87% of taxes." False. They pay about 60% of federal income tax. The top 5% also control about half the country's wealth.

I know they probably didn't cover that on Fox News or heritage.com, so here's some links to check out.

http://www.epi.org/publication/top_5_holds_more_than_half_of_the_countrys_wealth/
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

Right on kurt

Lee, I can see that in ideal society if you work hard you should get paid accordingly. Unfortunately this is not an ideal society/state. These arguments that everyone is saying that you need to get rid of loafers and people who don't put out a good product I can see up to a point. I am a teacher and I don't make a "Product" I educate children. Is it fair for my salary to be based on test scores that I don't take, based on children that I only see 55 mins a day? How is it that I work hard everyday and every year and my merit pay could change because of the students that I am given? Oh and please spare me the argument that I get summers off and I only work from 8 to 3. I get that from my own parents so I don't need it from strangers. Its true I work with students during these months and during these times but no one wants to talk about the amount of paperwork, training and other things we do as PROFESSIONALS in and out of school time. I'm not sure what everyone does for a living but judging by comments and opinions that I have heard both here and in the newspapers EVERYONE thinks teachers are lazy and we are paid too much and we are a bunch of whiners and thugs since we belong to a union. Schools aren't a business and students shouldn't be thought of as numbers and Teachers are professionals and deserve respect. I am guessing everyone with an educated opinion on here can thank at least one teacher that helped you, you are able to read and write after all.

Kurt....insightful comments by you, teachers do have tough jobs to get our kids educated, but the methods we are using currently go back to the times when our country was founded. We don't need the summers off so the kids can help harvest the crops. Kids can learn at schools year round, and that also adds more capacity to our school system and uses the buildings more efficiently.

Kids also need to learn in a way that will have relevance to the working environment. We need future employees who know computers, that know how to read, and are confident in a work environment. That means schedules, goals, benchmarks etc that are found in many companies, and these should be found in our schools as well. Students can be assigned tasks, goals etc and so can the teachers that teach them. It can be done in an interesting and exciting way. How?
If you can ignore the Fox News angle, this is an interesting approach to education.
See here
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-reporting/transcript/fox-news-reporting-fixing-our-schools

It is easy to be critical, but much harder to come up with solutions. This public school seems to have found a niche. Can Dearborn Schools borrow some some of its ideas? With today's technology, this should be possible everywhere. The kids sure seem to love it, and the teachers are on board, the proof is in the scores, and they confirm the learning process is taking place. Is this possible for Dearborn?
Are they unionized? If so, thumbs up.

Right Lee, our children are not harvesting crops. Yet the folks up in Lansing operate on that same schedule. Take home full time pay and benefits and work less then 180 days a year. So , IMHO they are in No postion to be dictating rules of work if they can't have a modicum of self dicipline or at the very least tone down the total hypocrisy.

Lee, How is it that you seem sure that teachers aren't doing lessons and activities to model real world jobs? I know for myself education has changed since attending school to where now I'm teaching it. Since I am unaware of your personal situation and that is your business but I'm sure it has changed since you have been in a classroom as well. Yes, technology is key for new learners and employees but technology also takes MONEY. Its is the same thing that Gov. Snyder keeps cutting away from education. The charter school in the link you sent obviously had the financial backing to make this possible. Snyder keeps on saying you need to do more this and more that but we are going to keep taking funds away from you. I teach math and I'm sorry an abacus will only help my students so much and that seems to be what is in our budget each year.(OK that's and exaggeration but you get the picture) Your also right about not needing the children to tend to the fields anymore, what is going to be accomplished with having students go to school longer? Year round schools still have the same number days off just in random times. Is having schools go year round going to help test scores? It might but when was the last time you had to take a test for your job that determined your pay or raise? If kids need more performance based "job like" activities why are test scores so important to everyone and why are they going to affect my salary if no one takes them past school?

Kurt, the school in the link is a public school, apparently one of those magnet schools.
Taxpayers pay for it just like other public schools. Regarding kids attending school year round, and not making any difference, are you kidding? The USA is 28th in world ranking in math, and most, if not all, of the countries with brighter math students go to school year round. Short two week breaks is not enough time to forget recent lessons. 3 months? It takes a few weeks to get back into the swing of things. Ditto for our legislators, they should be working year round as well. My daughter is still attending U of M, and high school is not that far removed. I do know that my machinery needs folks that can operate computers, and read work orders, and do simple statistical analysis to figure out yields , qtys , etc. Math is important, and the young kids (mid twenties) need way too much math training by me, stuff they should have learned in high school from you and other math teachers. Of course, that's not really fair, as there are other variables, but in the real world of jobs, USA employees are behind compared to other folk doing manufacturing in other countries. Where do unions enter the picture? They should be helping the manufacturing process. Are they? Employees deserve a living wage. Employers deserve a profit. What pays for it all? A viable product or service.
Hard to be viable when the Chinese work for 20 cents an hour doing the same part.
hello Walmart.

to Lee:
THere is a misnomer about the World Wide Math statistics and the USA being in 28th place. In the USA we include virtually EVERYONE in the test, it takes documentation for each child that does not take the test, so there are very few that dont take the test .

That is not so for other countries... they select who takes the test.. so the kids that dont preform very will are not included in the numbers. Only the best and brightest take the test.

Total, I agree that not all countries measure all the kids, but, the variables/ measurements over the past two decades have been consistent, and the USA has consistently dropped in those worldwide rankings. 15 years ago we were much higher in math, not number one due to the issues you point out, but at least number 8. In this ranking on the link, we are now 24 and the UK is complaining as they are 28th.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading

Now we are 28th in math and England is even lower. Math folk can see my point. The variables in testing have stayed the same, but our ranking has dropped like a rock over the past decade. What other variables ( other than our kids are not learning as much ) can their be? Can it be that the other countries teach year round, and don't let their kids help with the summer harvest? Perhaps. But that has been going on for the past decade, so what else can the reason be for the decline in our kid's smarts vs the rest of the world except that our methods are lacking? Do our kids have it too easy? Not enough time in the classroom? Video games a distraction? What other variable has changed over the last ten years to cause our kids to be less smart? Making everyone winners? Switching to pass/fail? I think other kids in the world take education a lot more seriously than ours do. Hard work has its rewards. Lack of a work ethic , or less work, equals less smarts.

Wow Lee, it took longer than I expected but it always goes back to the blame game. I will make sure that I tell all high school math teachers its our fault and we need to fix it. Thanks for playing. Before I bid you a happy new year let me clear a few things up. 1) The article is about a public CHARTER school, these schools get both public and private funding they also take select students, have smaller class sizes because of it and logically test scores are going to go up. Magnet schools are different as well. 2) Year round schools sound good in theory and your right it is less time to forget lessons but a few things to consider, Day care for when students are off and need a place to be, employees needing to take time off of work for these breaks and employers who need to deal with these employees. Tourism is going to suffer since who works these seasonal jobs, school age kids, don't we want to bring money into the state? There are other variables but I am going to run out of characters. 3) Test scores, is EVERYONE taking the same test? Total Health is right not everyone in other countries take them. Also didn't you want students to get more work based learning? How many tests do you take in a normal week?(didn't answer that one before) I can teach a student to take a test but is that what you want or work experience(make up your mind)

4) Don't assume that teachers aren't teaching what students need, do you blame your dentist every time you get a cavity? I am pretty sure they tell you that you should brush, floss and use mouth wash so why is it that people get cavities since I assume that what everyone does everyday. Your not in my classroom or other teachers classrooms so you have no idea what is being taught or not. Just because you had a daughter go through the schools system does not make you an expert on education, neither does paying taxes, I pay them too remember.
I hope you have a Happy New Year and a great 2013.

Kurt, not blaming anyone, particularly you, for the math scores, and perhaps there are a few variables out there that could be the cause of our kids falling so rapidly compared to other countries in a standardized test that has been going on for years. A test is just one measure, the real test is how you do in the real world, and I use my math every day. Teachers matter. In one calculus class at oakland U, everyone received a grade of .5 or less. Why? The teacher was proofing out his new math book, and we were the proofers.
He was mixing his +s, and -s. His advice if you didn't like the grade? Drop it and take it from someone else. Most did, and got 4.0s. Does this happen in public schools? You know better than I. In the 40s, music unions were striking the record companies, claiming, rightfully so, that records and radio was reducing the need for musicians and that was unfair. The unions demanded that money be put in a fund to help umemployed musicians. The record companies agreed. However, the record companies came out with 33 rpm records, and went directly to the home consumer. The thousands of musicians had to learn other professions, live musicans on radio was disappearing. My point? As technology changes, our schools need to adapt, and keeping the 'harvest the crop' mentality is archaic. Give a 100% tax credit so parents can buy their kids school computers, and now the kids won't trash them since they are the owners.
Happy New Year..all the best for 2013

If Lee Jacobson writes a blog, i want to read it. This guy hits all the points and nails them.

KURT AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO RAISES THIS POINT ad nauseum - WHY is that rule still standing? WHY DIDN'T the well connected Democrat loving unions get it changed? Could it possibly without that sorely overused point there would be NO logical rebuttal for RTW? I AGREE - there should be no free lunch! So WHY IS THERE? WHY doesn't the UNION MACHINE get the NLRB to CHANGE IT !??!

Joe, Hasn't that been a beef with republicans for a long time that the unemployed democrats are on welfare and need to get back to work, quit freeloading off the hard working republicans? How is this different? Because you don't like unions for some reason and its taking money away from them? If you don't like this argument then give me the magic wand reason that RTW is going to bring jobs to Michigan? Have we changed that much as a state in the time that it has past few days that we are going to have jobs flooding in? FYI the "Well connected Democrat loving unions" couldn't get it change since nothing went through committees or debates to do so. Also, if unions make up such a minority part of the state why is it that RTW was so important to pass? If we are only talking about a few of us "Union Thugs" what's the big deal?

Kurt, like all massive undertakings, RTW will take awhile to make itself felt, but there are some basic reasons why RTW will succeed in Michigan. Companies, and , as a math expert, you should agree, compete in the world market to survive. Mom and pop shops need the larger companies. That means the larger companies need to make a profit (nasty word to some) in order to survive. In ever increasing numbers, to make a profit, companies are deciding to establish or relocate in RTW states. As capital becomes ever more moveable, this trend will accelerate, and jobs will increasingly flow to the place of best returns — states with RTW where companies can achieve lower costs, increased productivity, and greater profits. Unions don't protect jobs, they lose them. They will be losing those union jobs to Michigan, where, without the restrictions unions often cause, companies can operate more efficiently, and , if they don't measure up with respect to pay and safety standards, the unions will be there to make them toe the line if need be. Lawyers can usually do the same thing for less for an employee, another discussion. Bottom line, RTW will be a good thing for Michigan, and , after Snyder is reelected for another term, he can start fixing Detroit as well. Who has been running Detroit for the last 65 years, and letting Detroit fall apart? Republicans?
Don't think so. Dems..yep, and it is time for a change. The status quo in Detroit is not getting the job done.

Obviously Lee companies need to make a profit. How does being a RTW state make that happen? Are there certain tax breaks in the law that make that possible? Does making us a RTW state suddenly make us Michiganders harder workers to increase productivity? How is it that companies are going to come here to make more profit? Oh that's right to lower wages and benefits how else? And your right Lee if companies fail to provide safety and pay thats where the unions are going to step in and help all the workers right? Not just the ones who pay dues. I guess your right about Detroit we should lower wages as inflation increases so more people are going to be on welfare because they make more money that working that way. That will fix detroit. Do me a favor and actually answer some of my questions instead of talking about going out into the fields again(we have heard that before)

Kurt, you are a teacher, fine, but until you run a business, and deal with unions within a business framework, how can you to comprehend the differences between a union and non-union shop? Others who have been there tell me if I am wrong, but my experience (40 yrs) has shown that union shops, while highly skilled, often fall behind in employee relations, customer demands, positive thinking and problem solving. Plus, there is always the added layer of personnel to deal with. Negotiated raises go to everyone, slackers and achievers alike. In a non union shop, everyone has a voice directly with top management, and if management is smart, they listen. I do. There is more teamwork, working together. Just the concept of union & management conjures an image of us vs them. Companies want management and workers to work as a team, make lots of money, and share the fruits of their labor. With union, all compensation is locked into a formula. With non-union, for an average employee, one year it could be a bonus of $20, the next $2000, depends on how productive the workforce and year was, and the ones who work the hardest, get promoted faster, and get more money. Slackers do not get rewarded. That is my view on why companies will now move to Michigan, to have more freedom to conduct business. As a business owner, sourcing a critical part for a 5 yr contract, same cost, would you choose union, or non-union to buy from? Non union gets the job every time, for obvious reasons.

Ok Lee, I’m going to try and go slow since I am just a teacher and I obviously have no idea how to run a business. Let me think about what I do on a daily basis. I produce and sell a topic (lesson) everyday to my students (Customers) and try to get them to motivate them to do something with it (now they are employees) in a cooperative manner using problem solving of various kinds. Not to mention they all don’t understand the same things so I need to provide alternates for individuals who need attention. I have demands from my superiors and parents about achievements. Of course everyone gets along so well in my room(not) so there are those issues as well. Oh by the way I have to make sure each lesson is translated in 4 languages(Spanish, English, Japanese and Arabic. ps I only speak English). Now I could go on about product quality checks(checking papers, tests), customer feedback(Parent conferences, Evaluations) and data reports (LOTS AND LOTS OF DATA REPORTS).

Your right I have no idea what it takes to run a business like you. However you have further proven to me that you truly have NO CLUE what it takes to be just a teacher. You have to excuse me but I don’t have the time to look it up since I have lessons to plan and translate for tomorrow, but how many union shops compared to non union shops are there in MI? Was there a law before RTW that new companies that came into MI HAD to be union shops and that was the reason why MI didn’t have businesses coming in? And I’m sorry I just don’t believe that companies are coming to MI because they want to hold hands and sing songs with their employees instead of making more money in other places, but maybe that’s because I’m a teacher and I am FINE with that.

Kurt, interesting analogy but here's a different take. How so? As a boss (teacher) I instruct my employees (students) every day on how to make new products via work orders (lessons) that need to be fabricated using sophisticated equipment (books, computers,) to a satisfactory degree that meets customer acceptance PPAP (preliminary part approval process) or tests/exams. Of course, lots of paperwork (quality assurance) follows each job (student/employee. My point is that teaching comes with the territory with many businesses, the better the teacher, the more successful the business. I have taught for decades, and my students make the best parts. The difference is unions. With the teacher's union, good teachers and bad teachers are lumped together, seniority determines pay, not results. At least with my teaching, the bottom line tells me if I am doing a good job. Have tenure? You can't be fired. If I quote wrong too many times, teach the wrong methods, I am out of business. A union prevents the slackers from being fired. That is inefficient. RTW sends a message to the world that Michigan is open minded, and if you open a branch factory here, if it's union in other states, it does not have to be here in MI. You can kid about the lack of tension in a non-union shop, but wouldn't you rather look forward to going to work rather than the confrontational tensions of a union setting? Smiles instead of worries? Far fetched? Others know exactly what I am talking about.

Wow Lee interesting take on the analogy but I thought you told me that being a teacher I have no idea as to how to run a business but it seems that you do the same things that I do. Remember though you pick your employees picking the best, I am given my students and they are a new group each year. How do you motivate your workers? Money, bonuses? I can only motivate them with letter grades and success later on in life. Also remember your workers go to work because they choose to I’m pretty sure my 12 and 13 year olds HAVE to be here by law. You also talk about good and bad teachers, how are you judging them by test scores? So the teachers who teach in more affluent areas where students have access to tutors and parents that support learning and have higher scores are better teachers since their student’s scores are higher and the bad teachers are the ones whose students come from broken homes, unsupportive parents with little or no access to additional help and lower test scores are the bad ones? You say that RTW shows that MI is open minded, seeing the comments posted on this website I see that people are pretty set in their ways , both sides, and nothing that I say is going to change their 40 years of experience minds.

A lot of your ideas you bring up would work in ideal society where working hard always gives you rewards but I am sure you can agree that whether it is a union or non-union shop it isn’t always the case. I would love to continue this “discussion” but I’m sure people are getting tired of the emails(Sorry Vincent) and I am getting tired of defending my occupation to people that just because they have been in a school they understand what I do. Happy 2013

Kurt, you're right, folk are probably getting bored with our comments. Statistics do not lie however, and over the past decade and more, the RTW states have shown increased growth, both in jobs and population. Pay has also increased when compared to non RTW states, when cost of living and the starting wage rate are factored in. Whether Michigan joins the trend remains to be seen. But at least we are now a player... Regarding our analogies, neither is perfect. You can't kick out a student for stealing like I can, but wait! In Montessori , religious, and other charter schools they sure can kick them out, and discipline them as well. Often, with full approval of the parents. Odd that most of those schools are non-union, the teachers make less, yet the students come out , on average, smarter. You have to employ all, even if they don't want to work. Time then, to revamp the public school system way of handling students. Ditto for teachers who don't really care, are just biding their time until retirement, parents and students know which ones I am talking about. A simple email opinion survey will ferret them out. It may seem harsh, but send the losers (Adm, students, teachers) to a reform public school of sorts, where they can waste each other's time, and not the time of those who want to learn. Private type schools already have that power, how can we legally enable you and the public schools to have the same 'stick'.?
I have the easy job. You don't.

Statistically, RTW states have started from a lower base pay in the first place.

If you figure on pay increases from the starting rate, RTW is by far better for the workers with respect to increased pay and benefits. Fired for no reason? Take the company to court....cheaper than union dues by far......

DJG, U can sat RTW would have passed if placed on a ballot On Nov/4th, it clearly was not. Your point is irrelevant.

Salena, in non RTW states, the company and the union can put into the contract that , in order to work for the company, the employee must join the union. Simple as that. So much for Federal Law......
The unions hate RTW for one simple reason....money via union dues. With RTW, unions now have to actually recruit members, bill them for dues , and work harder to get money out of the worker's pockets. Auto deduction is wonderful when you are receiving the money, and members never really miss it. It is different when a member has to write a check for $75 or more a month. Competition? Non union shops get jobs and contracts far more than union ones, and non union shops are not hampered by archaic work rules , such as no cross training etc. Go to a trade show and watch the movers union move your table, the electrical union plug in your lamp etc. The end result of RTW is efficiency, savings, and more money for all. Hostess is not around due to dumb union rules that allowed the competition to drive circles around them. One truck for bread, another truck for twinkies, another crew to put them on shelves , all to the same store, etc. Read some additional facts here by a former union thug.
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2012/02/a-former-union-thugs-take-on-right-to-work-whats-right-whats-not-1713179.html

Lee ,I don't what union shop you work in, the ones iv'e worked we do all the stuff you mentioned and more, get with the times Lee!

Unions don't hate anyone, period. We forget unions are made up of hard working people that you and I see and talk with everyday. They wan't what every person wants.To raise a family that is healthy, well educated, God fearing and have sense of Community. I don't believe we can have any of those things on minimum wages. Hate is a word that has never ever been used in a conversation or debates I have had about, Republicans, Democrats or The right to work.

Ya good luck with that. There is no more evil entity in this state than the MEA......

Only idiot is the barbie on this post. The rest of the people can have a civil discussion.

I have not heard the left announce a recall in the papers, where did you read that?

Janice you're absolutely right. He's done nothing but improve our bond rating, increase our rainy day fund, retire more debt, reign in the out of control unions, revise the Michigan Business Tax, give a glimmer of financial hope to Detroit, and generally waste all your tax dollars on things that in FIVE YEARS WILL BLOW YOU AWAY! Oh wait, that was the last Governor. Nevermind.

Pension tax? social security is tax free, private pensions get a 40,000 deduction, the only people getting more then 40 grand a year pension is police, some firemen, teachers, and some muncipal workers. 99% of sneiors are not effected by the pension tax.

Wiley, seniors have little reason to be angry because of the pension tax since it does not affect anyone born before 1945. If you are born from 1946 to 1952, 20 grand is exempted, and 1953 or later, then you have a gripe. It exempts all military pensions, and many others. See details here http://www.retireinmuskegon.com/about/retirement-tax-bite/

Union folks are of course angry because of RTW, it takes money out of the union coffers. Nothing else has changed. Independents should be happy as Snyder did balance the budget without last minute theatrics. Gun lovers should be happy as he left intact the right to carry almost anywhere unconcealed. You can walk into a school legally tomorrow and openly carry a firearm if you have a CPL (concealed permit license) . It is illegal to conceal it however. That is the law that Snyder vetoed. With more training, a concealed weapon could have been brought into a school, but again, that is vetoed. Presently, with a CPL (permit to carry a concealed weapon) you can openly carry into a church, school, theater, etc, but not federal buildings such as courthouses , airports, etc. Doing so is not a smart thing to do , but it is legal. Folk tend to get nervous , and with good reason. The law would have addressed this issue. Snyder said no. Oh well, he still gets my vote. Getting a CPL is easy if you don't have a record and are not crazy. Usually $100 for a class and then $103 for the sheriff to do a background check.

Joe, I wasn't attacking you. My apologies if you took offense to my comments.
Life is going to get very "messy" in the state of Michigan over the next couple of years. We're all to blame for it. Folks have gotten so entrenched in partisan politics over the years that the folks in Lansing and Washington are getting us to point fingers and blame eachother for the lack of results that THEY are providing to US the voters. Problem is that no one wants to work together, everyone wants the credit for coming up with a solution but no one wants to work on the problem. Another problem is that we're all to worried about "taking sides." No one ever wants to admit that it takes a village not just an individual.

Col. I would like you to tell me
the state you worked in
the city you worked in
what the name of the shop was
what decade
the GAMbino's first name
the Unions name
the union local's number
because this sound like a cheap black and white movie
I am not questioning the integrity of what you are saying
I believe I could take this information to the police and find a mob connections
and destroy a branch of the Mafia

RTW will have little impact on union membership, as most of those that are union members recognize that they're far better off with the union than without it, and without dues paying members, the union will cease to exist. Do you think the teachers union, for instance, is going to evaporate because or RTW? That enough teachers will be so short sighted that they'll let the union die? That they can't look around and see the discrepancy between what union represented teachers make in the public school system, and what those that aren't union represented in private schools make?

RTW also has zero to do with any workplace converting to union representation. Any workplace can vote to be represented by a union with a majority vote.

If the unions provide value, they will continue to exist, because workers will vote to organize and pay dues, regardless of whether they're required to or not.

Oh really? Pray tell me, what data base have you derive those "facts" from? Oh yeah, that's right, I gotch ya..... those talking points from the UAW, AFL-CIO, SEIU, AFCSME.... all those gentle folk we saw on the font lawn of the capitol, displaying all that class and adulthood. Oh, don't let us forget about their wonderful display of tent dismantling abilities. look who's talking about kool aid drinking, Steve!