It's sad to me that The Family Puppy which sells puppies (they are not adoptions) would be giving the prize away. Maybe a tour and party at a humane society (I know the Humane Society of Huron Valley would have done that) would teach kids the value of adopting a homeless pet. 8 to 10 million pets will enter shelters this year alone because or irresponsible pet owners. I know the PuppyMill Awareness group would agree with me.

Unfortunately, The Family Puppy does work with large commercial breeders. Most of them are located in northern Indiana (Amish). Some kennels have shocking violations listed on their recent USDA inspection reports and cage over 100 dogs-that screams puppy mills. Puppy Mill Awareness of SE Michigan has been closely tracking all for the stores breeders since 2009, however the stores has a history of working with mega mills in Minnesota (see Kathy Bauck) mentioned in a Detroit Free Press article in 2007. We have collected plenty of sad photos of some of the kennels. Please read all about our public education campaign on our message board. http://www.meetup.com/puppymillawareness/boards/thread/9714368/0/

I work with a animal rescue group, we all plea with you to go and walk the shelters, see the faces of the puppies and kittens with so much love hoping you will save them from a horrible death. Hoping you will love them and protect them their whole life.
Then go to the web and look up puppy mill awareness and look in the faces of the the animals that spend their whole lives in cages, having babies after babies never to experience a human hug, kiss, compassion or cuddle up in warm soft bed with someone who loves them.
I hope when you go to sleep after doing the above, that the faces and knowledge will leave a imprint on your heart to do the right thing. Anyway you try to defend a puppy mill store it only adds up to one thing, behind the scenes is torchure, sadness, pain, and loneliness. Please be a part of the solution not part of the problem. Be a voice for the ones who have none or do but not have the power to make people listen or understand.

Sandra Mezza We agree… Shelters should be the first option! Here are two initiatives The Family Puppy is doing to help animal shelters:
1. We have a 10’ sign in all five of our stores that says, “Have You Visited Your Local Animal Shelter First”. We encourage all to go to the shelter and see if there is a dog they can adopt, if not then come back to us and we will help them find the puppy that meets their needs.
2. We also have our own In-House Adoption program that we have championed since we opened in 1998. We have adopted over 11,000 puppies and kittens, 98% are kittens. This is a NO-KILL program that we call our, All American Adoption Program. We have the unwanted litters taken to the vets we partner with for a physical including testing for FIV and FIP. If they pass we accept them into the program and have the vet Spay/Neuter them before we adopt the kittens at the stores. The Family Puppy is helping to SOLVE the problem not just maintain, we have now started spaying the mother cat for the owners at no charge to stop the cycle.

The statistics show that shelters are euthanizing twice as many cats as dogs in Michigan, 60,000 in 2010. This is why we do not sell purebred cats. http://www.naiashelterproject.org/shelter_chart.cfm?shelter_id=26&state=MI
In an effort to lower this statistic please help us spread the word about this wonderful initiative The Family Puppy has provided.
John Stottele
The Family Puppy
www.TheFamilyPuppy.com

I am sorry, but any entity that encourages breeding for commercial profit is not on my list for support. Many of these types of "pet stores" regardless of the hype and marketing do not help the overcrowding situation of too many dogs and cats-
Our shelters, foster homes and dog pounds are filled to capacity. If there is a responsible breeder then a litter needs to be pre-sold and we certainly need inspections. I am sick about what the Amish have done-there was a pet store in Madison Heights, we ended up with one of their dogs, a sad sad case, the papers were traced back to a filthy backyard breeder puppy mill compliments of the Amish.
Why don't you just sell the dogs from the shelters instead?? That would be a win win situation? Where is you money made--pet supplies or on live animals?

Thanks for joining the conversation John. How about we stick to the conditions of the breeding dogs. That is what this is about.

The Family Puppy owner, John Stottele stated “We don’t judge on kennel size but on quality.” This is one way to avoid talking about his large commercial kennels. Lets take a look at The Family Puppy’s largest puppy-producers last year: Marlin Bontrager and Devon Troyer, each from northern Indiana. Both Marlin and Devon (Pine Creek Kennels) have shipped over 300 dogs each year over the last two years. Marlin’s kennel was reported to have 167 adult dogs in May 2011! That is no hobby breeder! Troyer was close behind with 138 adult dogs in May! Maybe Stottele believes this is good compared to his prior mega breeder Kathy Bauck with over 800 dogs in Minnesota. Even with staff she was convicted of 4 misdemeanor charges, 3 of torture and 1 of animal cruelty. We all watched the undercover videos. Were customers shown pictures of her kennel? This is quality?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRhRH8ACapo

“We don’t judge on kennel size but on quality.”
We have taken a much different approach since learning about Kathy Bauck years ago. As of four years ago we have taken a much more involved approach with our breeders. You can see our Breeder Requirements on our website: http://www.thefamilypuppy.com/breeder_requirements.html?id=J2mcd3vD Please review the five points listed; 1) Exercise and Socialization, 2) Veterinary Care, 3) Breeding practices, 4) Kennel Design, and 5) Inspections.
Our main breeders are in Northern Indiana and are Amish. We are proud to say the Amish breeders have a much better work ethic than most “English” breeders. Most of our breeders have less than 50 dogs. With this goal in mind we have mutually decided to no longer get puppies from Devon Troyer. We are continually striving for higher standards and have devoted much time in the past 4 years to raise the bar across the pet industry. This step change is happening throughout the industry and has forced many sub-standard breeders out of business.
Many breeders that used to sell to pet stores have lost their USDA licenses and are now selling directly to the public without oversight or inspections. That is why there is a federal bill, and just recently a Michigan bill, to regulate and inspect ALL breeders over 15 dogs. We applaud these efforts and are in discussion with MI state legislatures to help form these new laws.
John Stottele
www.TheFamilyPuppy.com

The Amish are known for the puppy mills and these mills are hard to get to,
protected and buried deep in the farms that are family owned. For years the undercover stories that came to the publics attention were horrific. The problem
with these breeders are they have proetction from "whistle blowers"-the sect remains silent. Also, they view animals as "disposable" and the purpose is to work or for profit-
If you state the English breeders are worse thant he Amish and you buy from the Amish........what are you really saying? Looks to me like you are supporting puppy mills all the way. Sad. Very sad for the puppies and the breeding dogs. So sad.

John, you still sell puppies from breeders or puppy mills or Amish farms for profit. However you slice it, you do NOT Adopt out animals directly from a shelter or rescue. You ARE adding to the overpopulation of animals in our local shelters and rescues.

The best thing is that the public is getting educated on how terrible this process is, so eventually you will be out of business. If you really want to be part of the solution, partner with local shelters and rescues to do adoptions in your store and STOP selling puppy mill dogs.

And are your stores a franchise? Or are all these stores "family owned"?
Thats a lot of puppies per store, per year IF they are even adopted out at the
$100.00's of dollar price tag......if they are not adopted and are growing and aren't the cute little puppies, what do you do with them? How long do you keep them in those little spaces and let the public handle them--(exposure for the puppies at a vulnerable time in thier life...) What happens to all these puppies?

Just a thought, why would you have to say "30 minutes of play time with the LIVE puppies" ? Puppies can either be alive or be dead.
Quite frankly, I'm done with this--California is progressive in banning the sale of live animals in pet stores such as this, other States have pending legislation and others are having dialogues about this problem and the effects on the animals and the cruelty involved. If a business can't attract revenue with pet supplies, they use the animals as "live bait" to lure the customers in....what you have is a pet supply store that can't compete with the big box store. It's marginal at best and small. To attract business the puppies are the calling card. Thw word 'Family" tries to evoke warm fuzzy feelings. It is dollars and cents, it is bottom line driven and the puppies are just part of the numbers for profit. Michigan does not need these types of business and what is attached to how thier "product" comes to market. In this case, the puppies are just another product to sell just like a bag of litter or a case of dog food.

I am saddened to see that what started out as a fun little contest for Patch readers has turned into a campaign soap-box for animal rights activists.

It would seem that many of you are completely against anyone acquiring a dog unless it is an adoption from a shelter. Unfortunately, while that is a perfect option for some, it is not a good option for others. I have shared my home and life with a particular breed of dog since I was a teen. This breed combines a perfect mix of family pet that is very good with small children with a working dog mentality. The importance of knowing the lineage of my future family member is very important to me on several fronts. One, this is a large breed, and as such it is very important to know the temperament of its parents and grandparents, how the animal had been socialized in its very formative first 8 to 12 weeks as well as the health history of both parents and grandparents. The ability for me to ascertain these facts from a shelter adoption is virtually impossible. This makes me a horrid person? I don’t get it.

It's not a campaign for animal rights activists-It's opinions and its facts. I donate to our local shelters as well as charities. No one said or branded you as a horrid person-matter of fact, no one said any thing. If you purchased from a pet store, so be it-if you purchased direct from a reputable breeder, that is better. I assume that is what you did. But don't lump every one that blogs in a catagory--I think most of us just understand the issues and care about suffering and neglect.
Yes, its a shame this event is not viewed totally as fun. But there are two sides as to what is promoted here- one side is publicity with little additional investment by the pet store to attract more sales of puppies that increases revenues for the store. The by product is that it lends support to puppy mills-the law of supply and demand. I hope you did go to a reputable breeder who does not sell puppies wholesale. Unfortunate, in times of economic downturn and just in these times alone, animal cruelty, neglect and abandonment is on the increase And some of these cute puppies from these stores end up as those cases in newspapers later.
To acertain these same facts of lineage from a puppy selling store is the same-we have had that experience--the paper trail was a never ending road map with incorrect information.

Bryce, standing up against Puppy Mills does not make people animal activists. And no, you are not a horrid person to disagree, however I think you are confusing reputable breeders & puppy mills. If as you say, "... It is very important to know the temperament of its parents and grandparents, how the animal had been socialized in its very formative first 8 to 12 weeks as well as the health history of both parents and grandparents." Then you are not going to get this information from the puppies sold at the Family Puppy. I think that is the point most people make about the difference between buying a puppy from a reputable local breeder and a pet store. In reality, a shelter probably has more information about an animal than the Family Puppy will ever have from their puppy mills.

John twice as many cats 60,000 are being killed and you are not selling purebred cats. Well good for you.
That means 30,000 puppies/dogs are being killed, so it's ok to sell puppies.
Sorry, this does not work for me.
You will have to come up with something better than this to convince me.
I don't understand how people can be so blind even with pictures and the strories told about puppy mills. As long as petstores choose to support these puppy mills, not only the moms and dads suffer but also puppies that are not perfect, that have imperfections, what happens to them??? They won't bring you $$$$$$$$ do what good are they? Who cares for them? Is money spend for vet care for them? We all know what happens to those babies.

John

So sorry you have taken the abuse you have had to take regarding doing a fun thing. I would ask Sandra, how many puppies does she know that were sold at your store that ended up in the shelter and were euthanize. It appears to me you have gone above and beyond what needs to be done and have been proactive in your approach to trying to help the situation but others just don't want to listen. As always there are two strong sided opinions on the issue, but unforgivably it is an issue that no one will ever back down to give credit where credit is due. Patricia, I totally disagree with you comments that it is not an animal rights activist conquest. I respectfully disagree with that, as you have not formed an opinion, but are forcing down ones throat. You have taken generalized statements, reports of people who were out to push an agenda, and made them your facts for all people, and continue to state his business is not where one should buy. He provided you with facts of what they do and how they do it and you ignored his facts. As any business owners does they continue to improve their process and find the right solution to make sure they steer clear of puppy mills, but will have none of it. Therefore, respectfully, you are an activist trying to force a liberal agenda down someones throat who does not agree with your opinion or facts. Why not just state in your post, I respectfully disagree with you and therefore we will agree to disagree.This is the correct way.

All I asked is, what does John do with the puppies that start to grow that he doesn't sell and that is a fair question that has not been answered.

Does the puppy get shipped back? There are no adult dogs in those pet stores...or
older puppies, so what happens to them?

He gets his puppies from puppy mills. There is more than enough evidence to prove this. Someone who makes a living off of suffering should not be awarded with the after party money making prize. Certainly Novi has a plethora of ethical businesses who could be promoted instead. If voicing an opinion you dont care for makes me an activist then good for me. Who cares. What I do care about, as a consumer, is a business with a DOCUMENTED history of shady deals being given an economic boost by way of a fun contest. Which is why my family and I will not be going to the event. Its simple: he gets his puppies from puppy mills and there is more than enough evidence to prove this.

Patricia, unfortunately, people who call animals merchandise will never understand what we are fighting for. They can only think dollars. Their proceeds is blood money, and everything they own is from the suffering of a helpless animals. But that is the only way they can be successful, off the suffering of others.
All we can continue to do is fight and be the voice of these innocent little lives. In my eyes these people are not any better then the people who take advantage of the elderly and child abusers, these bullies do it because they can, they know these animals can't fight back which makes for easy prey and it's the only way heartless people can survive. The worst part is they try to justify thier evilness. BLOOD MONEY!

The owner of The Family Puppy, John Stottele, stated that our undercover photos of his commercial kennels were picked for shock value. So apparently he agrees they are shocking! Sorry, my undercover investigators did not see any exercise areas and according to some zoning application forms, there were no exercise areas mentioned. These are photos from Roy Schlabach's Kennel in Shipshewana Indiana. http://www.meetup.com/puppymillawareness/photos/5499642/

Answering Pam's questions Part 1/3
Pam,
You know the answers to these questions. We have gone over these many times and you have posted the answers on your Meet-Up website. For the benefit of the Patch readers I will answer them again and dispel your untruths you have reposted:
Q."What instigated your new approach?”
A. Long before your group started (PMA Meet-Up Founded Aug 15, 2008) we decided that we needed to do a better job investigating our breeders, Some due to Kathy Bauck, some due to our own desires to help breeders do a better job.
Q. “If you did visit, were you not shocked by the large number of dogs? Was she your primary supplier?”
A. We did visit Kathy Bauck, Pick of the Litter. We even flew one of our vets to tour her facility, but because of the distance we were not able to visit often enough to see the issues. The number of dogs was not an issue. She had very large pens and 15 acres. See snip in next answer from article as to the number bought from her.

Answering Pam's questions Part 2/3
Q. “Four years ago, the Detroit Free press ran an article”
A. Pam you know it was six years ago: 7/12/2006
Here are some snips from the article:
“Bridget Polk, 38, of Mt. Clemens said the schnauzer mix she bought from Family of Pets at Macomb Mall in Roseville was bouncy, adorable and a perfect companion.”
“Family of Pets also bought more than 50 puppies last year from Pick of the Litter”
“Since 2000, at least 65 Michigan residents have taken action against the Petland, Utica Pet Supply and Family of Pets.”
(Six Years and 8 stores, I have 5, means 1.35 complaints per year, Taken action means they filed a complaint with MI Dept of Ag. All complaints ever filed with my stores were researched and dismissed without issue)
Q. “So you just insulted your “English” breeders and brokers.”
A. There are sub-standard breeders and brokers (including Amish), that’s why we have become more involved in who we partner with for the clients that we serve. We have impressed with the willingness of the breeders we are partnering with to make the changes necessary to achieve our standards.

Answering Pam's questions Part 3/3
Q. “approximately half of your “licensed” breeders have over 50 dogs”
A. Pam, Your numbers are wrong. The numbers you state include puppies, but even if we use your stats… Enos has 50 (that’s not OVER 50) and you also know we have 20 breeders in Indiana, 4/20 = 20% not 50%. We currently actually only have 1, Marlin Bontrager, his actual number is 130 breeding parent dogs and he has an outstanding kennel. Here are his inspection reports: http://acissearch.aphis.usda.gov/LPASearch/faces/LPASearch.jspx
Q. “There appears to be 5 unlicensed breeders”
A. Pam, again you know that breeders that have 3 or less intact females are not required to be licensed. Is this a problem that we are using smaller breeders? Don’t make it sound bad, it’s good!
Q. “Are you planning on working with brokers again this year?”
Yes, as I have stated on our website and in correspondence to you, we will always use some brokers to find us good breeders of pups we do not have from our main suppliers.
Q. “Devon Troyer after he made the news too?”
A. Yes he did, It was an oversight on the Troyer’s part that they did not know they had to register with the county. Here is a snip with the outcome from the article you linked:
“The board granted in a 3-1 decision a special use variance for Devon and Marietta Troyer, allowing them to maintain kennels with indoor and outdoor pens and runs on their 12-acre property though, will be limited to 100.”

John - if I'm ever in the market for a dog again, I'll be buying from you. Well reasoned reponses.

John- Your "In House Adoption" Program seems like a wonderful idea- but the reality is you're offensive to ALL actual rescue groups/volunteers that spend countless hours saving the lives of animals who have found their way into shelters or on the streets. Thank you for helping alter female mother cats- but what is that doing for all the puppies/dogs lives that can't be returned to your store (because of spontaneous purchases or illness). Do you spay or neuter puppies that you SELL?

Hartland Eagle- Well reasoned responses? Hopefully by the time you’re in the market for a dog- you'll realize that BUYING a dog is supporting puppy mills. Disgusting.

They say you can judge a society on how it treats its elderly and its dogs-in this case it should be how it treats its elderly and where it gets its dogs..I mean puppies.

I'm not an animal rights activist, I'm an employed Humane Educator w/a Masters degree. The links that the ladies point out above are unfortunately true. Under the Freedom of Information Act, you could find those statistics. Always abreast of new animal legislation, many of the upcoming bills in MI (& other states) are aiming to regulate commercial breeders (a.k.a. puppy mills, large-scale breeding operations oftentimes w/ 50+ breeding dogs) come as a direct result of the horrendous cruelty to the parent dogs. Not to dismiss [the puppies'] unknown temperament, health, size, many are in-bred. These lead to $vet$ bills & the public is speaking out. Many of the key puppy mill states (OH, IN, MO, AK) dogs' rights are kept under Agriculture Law. With the economic recession, in this area where many more inspectors were needed, many were let go. As for me, I have a shelter dog BUT I've had a pedigree too. A person serious about a certain breed would go to a breeder. There they would meet the people + the mother dog & they would put a deposit down on the puppy. There would be no more than 2 types of breeds in the house *& not outdoors* because the ppl would be specialists of that breed. Also w/this economic downtown, our area shelters are overflowing. Those skittish of shelter dogs could put their extra $ toward a Trainer (shelter pets are a bargain!) OR idea: have 1 pedigree & 1 shelter pet. Saving the life of a dog is simply one of life's greatest joys & it is my hope you all get to

You sound like a cold hearted person. And live a very bitter life.

Your "In House Adoption" Program
Nicole, Thank you for the compliment, we are proud of our adoption program. We have kept more than 11,000 kittens out of the shelters. Someday we will all work together for animal welfare and stop arguing. We have found that people do not make impulse decisions on $1000 purchases. When people spend $1000 on a puppy they don’t usually take it to a shelter, but if they did I guarantee the puppy would not stay in the shelter but a few hours before being adopted (most likely for $300-$400). We do work with our clients and have taken back puppies that cannot stay in the home. We also microchip all our puppies and as of two years ago, register the new owner’s information with AKC’s Companion Animal Recovery database. It’s not our puppies in shelters. We know so because for 12 years, prior to registering the client info with AKC CAR, the microchip traced back to us. We get about 4 calls a year from shelters with older dogs that are lost and we are able to give the shelter the client’s info to get the dog back home.
JohnStottele
www.TheFamilyPuppy.com

Let me clarify, heartland eagle, sounds like a cold hearted person that live a sad and bitter life.

John, you just don't get it. Maybe you can't read or are incapable of understanding what these people are telling you. You can't take the life of ine and justify it by saving the life of another.

Jennie is right.
Puppy mills are horrendous. If any dog lover went to a puppy mill to see what it is like for themselves, and got educated on the source of puppies at pet stores, they would never buy from a pet store again.
Please adopt from a shelter or a rescue group - they always have plenty of puppies and dogs of all kinds.
If you want a certain breed with papers and all - please use a small breeder - meaning a person that has a dog or two that has puppies once in a great while - and visit the breeder in their home.
This is not a left or right wing thing, this is just right vs. wrong. Remember - to get accurate information, in any case, you don't get it from a salesman. We all know this.

A respectiable livelihood is not living your life off the suffering of others! I'm sure Hitler thought he had a respectful livelihood too!!

$1,000.00 a puppy at your store? Oh my gosh. Now thats' incentive for the puppy mills. What is the wholesale price of your "puppies"? I still want to know what he does with the puppies he does not sell? Unfortunate, they do not all sell when he runs what is similar to a "blue light special"... Lets face it, puppies in the eyes of retailers are bottom line items...again, it is sad and it is a shame. $1,000.00, ...........and the public thinks $150.00-250.00 for all the shots, boarding, vet care and food is too much to pay to the shelters, (charitable) in these economic times.

Well the torture and death of innocent animals is most offensive to me!
I am here alive today because of an animal.

Hartland eagle, YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!

The question has still been asked and not answered-

What happens to the puppies not sold? What does he do with them?

For every dog that is purchased, a wonderful dog sitting in a shelter will be euthanized do to a lack of a home. I would never "purchase" an animal. I wish I had the time and money to adopt more pets. My Robbie keeps me very busy, but in the back of my mind, I always see the others sitting, hoping and waiting.........

Harland eagle, if you choose to eat animals, that's your problem and has nothing to do with this topic since we don't eat dogs, let's hope. Sure, none of your dogs were euthanized, but those in shelters were. For every dog you sold, a wonderful dog could have been save from death and could have spent the rest of his or her days showering its family with love and loyalty. I wasn't addressing you in my comment anyway.

I don't consider myself an "activist", but if you want to call me that, I would proudly be called an activist for the sake of trying to stand up for these animals and the atrocities that happen to them.
Even if this store gets ALL of their puppies from reputable, humane breeders, which I doubt, I am still against buying puppies from pet stores, or even a reputable small breeder, because there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dogs AND PUPPIES (and other animals) in shelters and rescues around the country, without a home, without an owner or family-- alone, sad, living in a cage, just waiting for someone like you or me to come rescue them, love them, and give them a happy life and a family to be a part of. And yes, many of these dogs/puppies are purebred. Just take a look on Petfinder.com and you will see that you have many choices, from shelters in your area. When there are this many dogs without homes, it doesn't make sense to go out and buy a puppy from a pet store--you are supporting the horrible things that happen at puppy mills AND you have chosen NOT to save a dog's life--dogs at shelters are killed every day because noone adopted them. Until all shelters are empty and all dogs have a home, I don't think that dogs should be bred, period. There are just too many dogs without a home, and too many dogs dying every day.

And, just in case ANY of the puppies at Family Pet come from a puppy mill, let's just have a look at what goes on at these horrendous places. The breeding dogs at puppy mills are abused, neglected, live THEIR ENTIRE LIVES IN A CAGE--they do not ever get to get out to see the light of day, see sunshine, run and play--no, they are locked in a filthy cage their ENTIRE lives in a dark building with no windows....a filthy cage with the urine and feces from the dogs above them dropping onto them, not to mention their own waste. They never get bathed, they are filthy. They get urine burns on their skin, their fur is matted with feces and urine, they get NO vet care--many of them die, they are malnourished, with diseases and infections that never get treated...several dogs are crowded into small cages with hardly room to move. They don't get hardly any human interaction, and they get NO affection. Some puppy mill owners BEAT the dogs!!! This has been seen first-hand! They cut the dog's vocal chords so they can't bark bc they don't want to hear the barking (which is barbarically done by the way) The females have to produce litter after litter of puppies, with no rest or recuperation for their bodies in-between. They are miserable! This is flat-out horrendous ABUSE! Can you imagine having to live like that? (cont.)

All of this sounds so horrible that you may think I am making it up, but I am not; this information can all be found in the book "A Rare Breed of Love" by Jana Kohl, Psy.D It is an AMAZING book that really opened my eyes, that I think everyone should read! The book is a heart-warming (and at times heart-breaking) story about Baby, a toy poodle who lost a leg due to the abuse she suffered at a puppy mill, which she lived in for the first 8 yrs. of her life. She was saved and adopted by an amazing woman, the author of the book, and Jana tells Baby's story, as well as sheds light on what actually happens at puppy mills. After reading this book, I vowed to never again buy a puppy from a pet store or breeder. I will only adopt from a rescue or shelter from now on.

I am with you all the way, Amy! We need to keep speaking up for these precious animals. They don't deserve to be treated like that, and the dogs and puppies in shleters are just asking to be loved, and to be able love back. Instead, they could be on thier way to having their life snuffed out of them --- just because they could not find someone to love them.

ok, so the puppies are marked down, just like any other commodity that does not sell, which means no market---you state you sold every puppy, full price or sale--here is the next question, what screening process do you use to insure that the puppy is placed appropriate?

Folks, this is a topic about which people are passionate, but please tone down the name-calling. Calling someone an "idiot" or "insane" doesn't add anything to the conversation.

Thank you to those who've posted some valuable information about this topic. I've heard about puppy mills in passing, without ever understanding the major concerns. So while some may be upset that this thread went off-topic from the start, I've now become better informed, and so I appreciate the effort of the commentors.
---------------------------
Hartland Eagle-
"God put [animals] on this planet for our use."

I really hope most people can recognize how that mentality severly diminishes the value of life.

hartland eagle, don't be one of those fools who makes the rest of us Christians look bad. God did not make animals for us to abuse them. He is a God of love.

To hartland eagle,
Well here is a tidbit--the shelters screen the applicant--yes the applicant, to make sure that they meet the criteria-no complaints, cruelty charges against them, do they know how to care for the animal, do they live in a house, apartment, etc., do they have other pets and the temperament and ages, can they afford the vet and food bills, will the animal be inside, will he be left alone, if so how long on normal days, yes, hartland eagle, they screen to protect the animal from future cruelty and abandonment to the best of their ability---and guess what, when you adopt, should your circumstance change, if the dog is need of a home or care, you return him to the shelter---a good private breeder screens as well and makes follow up inquiries-
The difference is care and concern for the animal. Huge difference, big difference-
They just don't take your money and hand you a puppy.....see, the difference is the shelter=adoption, store =buy product labeled puppy add to bottom line.

You know what, you got the last word-good for you-doesn't make any sense-
but again, good for you-

A good friend of mine recently *almost* bought a puppy from one of The Family Puppy's locations. This pup, a 12 week old male Pomeranian, was priced at $1350. Research shows that most pups sold from puppy mills and other mass breeding operations are sold at the "wholesale" price of about $200-$300. This is an exorbitant amount for a pet quality puppy, without proven breeding behind it. In my opinion, we are talking about a puppy that was overpriced by about $1000! This pup was touted as being from an "Amish community" by the staff.

It was more money than my German Shepherd cost and he has a pedigree of the most famous working dogs in German Shepherd history...had I bought him as an 8 week old pup, he would have cost $1200. However, he was a little older at 12 weeks, so he cost $600. Yes, he was discounted...but the breeder was more interested in getting him into a great home, plus I have another of her dogs and have established a relationship with her. I simply cannot imagine paying $1350 for a puppy, especially one that is 12 weeks old and I can't pick up the phone or email the breeder when I have a question or need advice.

Another thing I would like to comment on - not everyone is in the position to rescue a dog or could find a rescue dog that meets their needs (I fall into that category). There are good/bad rescues, just like any other organization. Do your research prior to buying a pup!

Lets see in a litter, pending the breed type, say an average of $1200.00 for that little piece of fur----anyway you look at it, it exploits the poor dogs for the profit of the mill and the store that I believe uses them as bait to bring in more people to buy the pet supplies and food because that is only "gimmick" available to give an edge over the Pet Smart and Pet Supplies Plus and Petco's etc. that BAN the selling of live puppies and only feature animals from rescue leagues and shelters---All one can do, is bring this information forward and not support these types of stores. Kudos in this case to the big box pet supplies stores-for being honest, compassionate, transparent and doing the right thing--and marketing, advertising and supporting an end to the puppy mills.

And I thought the article on dirty dancing in Plymouth/Canton patch was the most passionate article. The question I ask is does this price include cage, spading, all shots, and how many visits to Vets office is included. When you break it down i believe you will see it drops the cost of the puppy to a reasonable market price. Every one has valid points in all the discussion but not everyone can handle the dogs from a shelter. I have heard of more cases of them being sent back then those kept. This is nothing against shelters as I fully support them, but no one can ever know the true personality of dogs in a shelter.

And to your point, I agree,and the shelter price includes everything to date, spay,neuter, shots, vet care etc. and at $150-200.00, very good deal.You can't know the personality of the dog from the pet store, and the shelter, depending how the animal arrived, surrendered, found or taken, you may or may not know the history either. But stores selling live puppies due to the amount of in breeding and the mills,
the odds are greater or just as great, the temperament and personality comes out later-there are lots of documented cases even on 20/20 and 60 minutes and in the newspapers of puppies returned to the pet stores due to health or personality issuesnot disclosed and when tracked ---puppy mill. To avoid all this, spay and neuter, support the shelters until we all get a handle on the sheer number of dogs and cats and put the mills out of business.
so you may not be as lucky as you thing for $1,000.00-$1,500.00.

Your comment makes no sense.
Shelters gets in many purebred dogs, actually the purebreds are more messed up in the head then the mixed breeds.
Have you done a study on this or have you worked at a shelter?

Sorry we must have sent ours at the same time. My comment was for Jerry Grady.

Here is where you all need to invest your time and energy... Unlicensed breeders without any oversight. There are thousands of breeders like this and most likely hundreds here in Michigan like this one! These are PUPPYMILLS and they don't sell to pet stores. This is where you suggest people go for a puppy?
http://bit.ly/AfZLWZ
Friday Jan. 20, 2012 LEE TOWNSHIP — More than 30 neglected dogs — many kept in cramped carriers or kennels and covered in feces and urine — were rescued from a Lee Township residence on Friday.

The Calhoun County Sheriff's Office and the Battle Creek City Police Animal Control Division investigated a report of animal cruelty and neglect in the 19000 block of 20 1/2 Mile Road in Lee Township at around 11:45 a.m., according to a press release.

The search warrant led to the discovery of 33 dogs, most kept in assorted pet carriers or kennels and some containing between three and five dogs each, the report said. Many of the animals were covered in feces and urine and "were not being adequately cared for," the sheriff's office said.

The animals were seized and taken to a local animal shelter.

Puppy Mills sell to the middle man and there could be one or a dozen-
The paper trails when you investigate are appalling and the purchasers
only look at the paper they get--and sometimes, that paper begs for questions, but,
bottom line, no puppies in the window, no gimmick to draw in buyers-
Maybe in time it will all stop because of compassion and education. There are breeders like what you stated all over and they are there because commercial businesses support them...

Here are some more photos of The Family Puppy’s breeder, Devon Troyer, taken June 2011.
http://www.meetup.com/puppymillawareness/photos/5569922/

@Jerry Grady: Who has been attacking anyone?? And how is this conversation teaching children "how bullies fight" ??? Noone has been attacked here or called names (with the exception of Sam calling hartland eagle an idiot--that is only ONE incident out of the many many comments here.) The rest of us are being respectful and laying out FACTS, plain and simple. As for us responding to "facts" provided by people like John of the Family Puppy, to that I say: he is a salesman just looking for an extra buck, so of course he is going to say whatever he can to get people to continue buying from his business. He did not provide documentation or proof of his "facts". And people like Pam backed up her facts with PROOF such as articles/websites, pictures and videos of these puppy mills that the familly puppy works with. He was proved wrong in some of his statements. We however, are laying out true, proven facts, and you just don't seem to want to listen or accept those facts. Why? Is it because you just want a shiny new puppy, and you think that the dogs and puppies in shelters are second-rate? Because they are not! There are so many wonderful animals who would make perfect family pets, who are alone and caged in shelters, just waiting for someone to bring them into their family and give them LOVE! (cont.)

Have any of you, who are on the side of pet stores who sell puppies, ever actually been to a shelter? Taken a look at the beautiful dogs there? I encourage you to just stop by a shelter sometime...prove me wrong that there are good dogs there! Go there, look at those sweet dogs caged up without a home, and actually play with one or a few of the dogs, interact with them. You will find good dogs there in NEED of a home, in NEED of love. These animals do not deserve to die. And they are dying in part because pet stores like Family Puppy sell puppies from breeders....there is absolutely no reason for more puppies to be brought into this world when hundreds of thousands of puppies and dogs are languishing in shelters, with a death sentence...they have hours, maybe days, maybe a week, until they are put down because noone adopted them. And I will say this again: You will find many PUPPIES on Petfinder.com, who are in shelters, waiting for a home. Take a few minutes to go online, on Petfinder, and look at a few of these animals. You can type in breed, age, your location: and get many many search results of puppies and dogs available for adoption in your area. (cont.)

Please. Please don't be so closed-minded. There is a very good reason that we are concerned for these animals. They deserve more. They deserve a home, love, a family, to LIVE, to NOT BE ABUSED--which SO MANY are abused and neglected and living horrible, miserable lives confined to cages, forced to breed non-stop. Please look at these facts and open your heart to the possibility that we may be right--that these animals deserve much better. Let's think of the DOGS, and what they deserve, not have to be the one who is right. (cont.)

You say that you support shelters and are against puppy mills...that does not make sense...if you were against puppy mills, you would not buy a puppy from a pet store. Pet stores, Family Puppy included, DO get their puppies from these puppy mill breeders! That has been proven in this discussion. And noone said that you are not a good person. I just hope you will open your heart to the possibility that maybe we are right about the horrendous way the breeding dogs are treated...and it needs to stop. This is an epidemic in this country, and not enough is being done to shut puppy mills down. I hope that changes. Please think of the innocent dogs. They deserve our voice, and for things to change. They deserve to have a happy life, to be able to run and play in the sunshine, to be loved, to be taken care of and to be healthy, with enough food and clean water...puppy mill dogs do NOT have any of those things. They are neglected and abused, they live their entire life locked in a small, dirty, crowded cage, covered in waste. That is the life of a puppy mill breeding dog. NO living being should have to live like that. Just thinking about it makes me want to cry. I'm sorry for going on and on, but this is the truth and it needs to be heard.

Every time a puppy is bought at a pet store, that person is supporting puppy mills and allowing them to continue. That person is also signing a death sentence for a puppy or dog who could have been adopted into a loving home. Of course I'm not saying that person is a bad person, or that they are doing it intentionally. Just that maybe they are ill-informed, and don't realize the effect of them buying that puppy. I can't force anyone to do anything. You must make your own decision. But as for me, my motto is: Adopt, don't shop :)

Having read this exchange from beginning to end, it appears to be more of a smear campaign orchestrated by rabid ideologues rather than simple statements of fact.

Sorry folks, you lost me and my sympathies completely. John, I'll be buying my food from you from now on as long as you carry Blue Buffalo.

Rapid ideologues? Sorry Bryce, you don't know me and I haven't name called or lumped any one into a catagory including yourself.
Smear campaign--not at all. Had the paper done a little bit more research, these conversations may not have happened so publically.
The truth hurts...plain and simple. If you ask all these other pet stores why they stopped selling live puppies--it's the same answer-put an end to puppy mills because that was/is the only source for these many live dogs. Reputable breeders pre-sell the few litters they have--and screen applicants and have contracts in place with the buyer/owner.
Please Bryce, buy your supplies from John, because if he gets enough business hopefully he will quit supporting puppy mills, just like all the pet supply chains that are progressive and compassionate and have already done--a long time ago as well as many of the "mom and pop" operations.. Humane treatment, compassion, care, and decency--that seperates people and some busninesses.

Sorry Bryce, you are not that clever--
The only commercial breeders in the US are the puppy mills-
And you name labeling and calling has gotten out of hand and quite immature
good riddence-

Hey I just remembered something...you don't even have to go to a shelter to look at adoptable dogs. PetSmart holds adoption events often where they bring in adoptable dogs and cats into the store. And Petco actually has dogs and cats in their stores, from shelters, that you can adopt. I've seen them at Petco. It's awesome.

The very best place to find a new member of your family is at any one of the great shelters that we have here in this area and in several other areas in this state. The sad part of this is that there are so many really sweet dogs and puppies that are being killed every day in these shelters. And the one thing that we do not need in our state are the pet stores that sell puppies. If you decide to go into a pet store and they have puppies for sale you will be making a fatal mistake if you purchase one of those puppies..
This is because it has been proven that over 99% of all puppies that are sold in every one of the pet stores in our state come from puppy mills. This is disgusting when so many really wonderful dogs and puppies are being killed just because someone buys one of these pet store puppies. Another known fact is that most of these puppies that are coming out of these puppy mills end up if they don't already have some kind of illness that will cause them to either died in the near future or continue to have severe health problems through out their life however long that may be. Time after time when I have talked to people who have bought a puppy from a pet store in Michigan they love that little one very much but that puppy has had some kind of medical problem that has cost those people who were able to afford the vet bills a lot of their hard earned money. That puppy has become part of the family and giving it up is beyond imaginable for any of those people.

Another big problem is that these stores are not being honest with its customers in that they are not allowing them to find out that they are in fact puppies from one those horrible puppy mills. They tell them that they are NOT from a puppy mill or that they only buy from USDA inspected breeders. Well you know what...? The USDA doesn't seem to care about the horrifying conditions that the breeding dogs in these mills are living in. They don't get fed good food or clean water if they even do get either of these life requirements. They don't have any toys to play with, a nice warm bed to sleep in and they never get the love that a family pet would normally enjoy.... and should have. Do you know that they don't even know what grass is? They have never walked on it and some have NEVER even seen the light of day!!!!
Is this an environment that you would like your puppy to come from? Where the Mother dogs are expected to have that puppy on rusty and to be able to keep it warm without any kind of box to use for her nest for those puppies? She barely has food enough for herself and she has to feed her precious litter that she really loves so much but what the heck there have been many of these in the past and a lot more in the future until her little worn out born will no longer be able to produce and then she gets clubbed to death or shot so that mill owner doesn't have to spend any more money than he or she has to in - continued

order to get rid of her. And this is the reward she gets for providing him with all of those years of bearing puppies for him to sell to these pet stores?(Note- I meant body in the last block of comments not born.)
Is this the way that you would want your puppy to start its life. She was always just thrown in with any male . Nothing in particular. He usually will have a genetic health problem that he will pass on to those puppies. But no one cares because no one will know in time. These dogs are so inbred and this is what causes the disease in the puppies in the pet stores in all of your communities . You know which stores those are. There are two large chains of those stores and they advertise that when you buy a puppy from them they come with everything but a new car. And do you know why?
You should after I have sat here writing all of this for the last two hours!
Just Google Puppy Mills or the names of those pet shops that sell these puppies. Find out the hidden horrors that will come with that puppy that the owners of these pet store refuse to tell you. Now it is up to you to make the decision. I will choose not to shop but to go to my nearest shelter and adopt a clean,healthy, happy puppy or even a dog that is through all of the piddle accidents and the other habits that all puppies have in growing up ... All of these puppies and dogs are worked with so that the shelter workers can match up a new member for your family.

They want that puppy or dog to be a forever member of your family so any problems with any of their animals are dealt with while they are being evaluated during their stay at the shelter. And they do not lie to you about any of their animals because they love those puppies and dogs and they want them to have good homes where they can be loved with all of your heart and not abused or given up because they don't match the new sofa that Mommy just purchased. Or because they have a new baby and there is not enough time cause Mommy has a headache because she didn't sleep last night. Unless you are brain dead you should by now have a good idea of what I am talking about. If you don't read it all again. And if you still don't understand that pet stores sell puppy mill puppies than keep Googling Puppy Mills and you should eventually get the idea. Best wishes to everyone in their search for their new family member. I love my dogs. They have given me a life worth living that otherwise may not have been good if I didn't have them in my home and in my heart!!!

Hi Barbara:

You seem to be very up on the health and well-being of dogs. I'm looking for a new food for my baby. What do you feed?

Thanks.

Hello Bryce. I don't feed my much loved dogs any thing that is sold from commercial feed producers. After doing much research I was shocked to find out that euthanized pets are used in the manufacturing of pet food. This just devastated me to think that I had been feeding my beloved dogs euthanized pets most of which had to be put to sleep because of life threatening disease. So they not only had been eating these euthanized pets but that drug used to kill them and the disease that those dogs needed this service for. I was beyond shocked.... Then is decided to do my own research and I continue doing research and I now feed my dogs a natural diet that I would not be afraid to eat .
You can't just do this over night. You have to have that unconditional love for them that they have for us to take the time necessary to teach yourself how to go about changing the way you feed them. But in doing so you will learn many things about the health of our pets and even ourselves. Best wishes in what ever you decide to do.
And thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be able to make this public... As it is not something that pet food manufactures what the world to know.
Sincerely,
Barb.

There are several brands of pet food that are rated for natural and do not have the fillers, chemicals, corn and all the parts of the feed animal in them.
Jut read the labels on the back-the first listed ingredients should be your meat and then vegetables etc. Pet Supply Plus and Pet Smart can direct you to the brands-there are about 7-9 different choices. Pet food manufacturers are moving in this direction. If not, based on the breed, age and health, ask your vet- They know your dog and can also advise you.

Bryce, I recommend going to www.dogfoodadvisor.com...they are a website that gives unbiased help in choosing a good dog food for your pet. They list all ingredients of each brand/type of dog food, and they also give a rating of each dog food out of 5 stars. This is an excellent and very informative website. I feed my dog Nature's Recipe adult dry dog food made with lamb, with a little Kirkland brand (from Costco) canned dog food mixed in. She has done well with it, and it (Nature's Recipe) contains no fillers, corn or animal parts. It is a little on the expensive side but not the most expensive. It got 3 out of 5 stars on dogfoodadvisor.com, which they consider good. However, I'm thinking about possibly (gradually) switching her to Costco's Kirkland brand dry dog food with lamb, because it got 4 out of 5 stars on the website, and is MUCH cheaper than Nature's Recipe. So that might be a good one to try. They also have the Kirkland kind with chicken, but I'm going to try the lamb bc my dog does better with lamb; I think the chicken gave her soft stools. Best wishes to you and your furry friend(s).

I don't care who believes me because it is the dogs that are going to suffer and that is fact! Heres another problem that I'll bet none of you have heard about and that is that our pets do NOT need those toxic vaccinations every single year like these vets have mislead everyone for 40 or more years? Do you ladies take your children if you have them every year to be vaccinated with the same vaccines that they got shot with last year or the year before that? Why do you think there are so many cases of autistic children that have just appeared in this world right now. Or even just this country?
Do the research your self. I don't have to convince you because I only care if someone else cares about these subjects. As long as people spend money the product is going to be manufactured. And just as a last note the food mentioned are not on the list of good quality foods for your dog. And anything from Costco is and mark my word, going to be on the dog food recall list again just like it was in 2003 or when ever it was. I don't remember because like I said I don't feed my dogs that garbage in a can or bag. For your dogs sake I hope that it doesn't end up making them so sick that it kills them like it did the almost 3000 dogs the last time there was a recall of dog food . As long as this country get product from China no one is safe. Why would I spend all of this time writing all of this if it were not true? It is not because I am some nut case. Best wishes for your dogs.

Barbara, I was not responding to your post at all, and I did not in any way say that what you said was false. You can have your own opinion and we should be able to give some advice and feedback too, without being attacked. You could have just stated your opinion and left it at that, but you did not. That was rude and incalled for. As for what you said about ALL pet food containing ground up euthanized pets, that is untrue. Click on this link:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/epa-document-proves-euthanized-dogs-and-cats-are-rendered.html
The article states that "The only way pet owners can possibly avoid using pet foods that include ingredients sourced from rendered dogs and cats is to read ingredients of every food, treat, or chew you provide your pet. Unless you wish to feed your dog or cat a rendered dog or cat, or unless you wish to feed your pet numerous chemical residue contaminants, avoid pet foods, treats, and chews that contain any of the following ingredients:

Animal Fat
By-Products (any variation)
Meat and Bone meal (not meat specific meal such as chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb meal)
Beef and Bone meal
Animal Digest

(cont., in response to Barbara:)
As far as you saying that the foods I mentioned "are not on the list of good quality foods for your dog", what list are you talking about? Because they ARE on a list of good quality dog foods according to a VERY reputable, well-known website that lists every single ingredient in every type of dog food out there (the website I mentioned in a previous post of mine). Do you have a more reputable list, and can we see it?